tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post8498439305724255233..comments2024-03-22T21:02:55.051+13:00Comments on Bat, Bean, Beam: The Good EarthGiovanni Tisohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10618534731338616708noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-62222586470939456382012-09-20T16:51:46.343+12:002012-09-20T16:51:46.343+12:00Thnk you KinakoJam. I didn't get into the issu...Thnk you KinakoJam. I didn't get into the issue of organic yields because it is fairly intensely debated, and in the context of the post possibly a sidetrack. I take Marion Nestle's point in the link you provided (and I enjoyed her book Food Politics a lot), but another contributor to that debate provided different figures, as well as a different assessment of the safety of organic foods.Giovanni Tisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10618534731338616708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-26346941783679186302012-09-11T21:06:19.429+12:002012-09-11T21:06:19.429+12:00comment pt 2:
You'd never get away with brand...comment pt 2:<br /><br />You'd never get away with brand names like Thoroughbred and Moral Fibre here in Germany - for obvious historical reasons (!)<br /><br />Maybe it's only natural that people drawn to organic foods are often responsive to implied moral or utopian ideologies in marketing. Buddhism and vegetarianism have often gone hand in hand, in the western hemisphere too. The kinakoJamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13970004949868408674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-65859077370001283912012-09-11T21:04:30.502+12:002012-09-11T21:04:30.502+12:00Great post!
Would be interested to hear which orga...Great post!<br />Would be interested to hear which organic fertilisers were identified as carcinogenic. I would have thought the use of traditional fertilisers would be easy to link to cancer rates, in communities that have traditionally used them. Was there any such study?<br /><br />Find it quite interesting that several commenters define sustainability as 'viability to feed the world kinakoJamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13970004949868408674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-13932774316559429912012-07-24T18:55:48.708+12:002012-07-24T18:55:48.708+12:00I've just moved back from the UK, and over the...I've just moved back from the UK, and over there you can buy organic food in your regular supermarket for about a 10-20% premium over non organic food. I'm sure its still produced in massive corporate farm, but at those prices it was a viable alternative.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10276755150083250512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-56021655574279786322012-07-23T20:50:28.236+12:002012-07-23T20:50:28.236+12:00"Finally, there is a heavy gender split on th..."Finally, there is a heavy gender split on the adoption of nutrition and self-development and the debunking of "health myths". Obvious, but I was a little surprised that you didn't talk about it, given what has then followed in the comments?"<br /><br />All I am personally aware of know is that advertising and marketing for grocery products is aimed at women, based on the Giovanni Tisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10618534731338616708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-42132048344578900302012-07-21T14:21:20.609+12:002012-07-21T14:21:20.609+12:00Good reading as always - I think this issue could ...Good reading as always - I think this issue could use some genealogical analysis, I'm thinking back to the alliance of the organic/natural and healthism as Christian restraint, represented in Edward Halsey's late 19th C migration from the US to Aus/NZ and the establishment of Sanitarium under the watch of the 7th Day Adventists. The moral dimensions you identify in CO today are obviously Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-10568873524707992752012-07-20T13:57:13.219+12:002012-07-20T13:57:13.219+12:00Ben, yes, quite right. I misread that so much for ...Ben, yes, quite right. I misread that so much for my super lit-review skills. Even on rereading that though, the differences are still not huge. I've got a few other reviews somewhere in my badly organised zotero folder somewhere that essentially say similar things if you'd like me to drag them out: either no improvement or minor improvement. <br /><br />I would have lumped the less Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10683156111034643595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-45883257002726539912012-07-19T23:02:42.225+12:002012-07-19T23:02:42.225+12:00Joy. Welcome back.Joy. Welcome back.Giovanni Tisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10618534731338616708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-39647806599979233962012-07-19T22:00:02.492+12:002012-07-19T22:00:02.492+12:00Moral fibre
made
in the dirt
A headful of polen...Moral fibre<br /><i>made <br /> in the dirt</i><br /><br />A headful of polenta<br />a stem, slim,<br />just so! <br /><br />No protein. No.Megan Claytonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03584562106579704547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-52843091387592103542012-07-18T17:10:30.903+12:002012-07-18T17:10:30.903+12:00Yes, true that. There a host of approved treatment...Yes, true that. There a host of approved treatments allowed whilst still getting away with being called organic. And the economic drivers of commercial farming are very different to personal farming.Ben Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08015337296196701141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-49468375051296841332012-07-18T16:47:13.733+12:002012-07-18T16:47:13.733+12:00Or rather the use of natural pesticides and herbic...Or rather the use of natural pesticides and herbicides, as opposed to chemical ones (which are in turn sometimes synthetised from plants). This, from a resarcher at Berkeley (http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lhom/organictext.html):<br /><br />"When you test synthetic chemicals for their ability to cause cancer, you find that about half of them are carcinogenic.<br /><br />Until recently, nobody Giovanni Tisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10618534731338616708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-41097434620700980082012-07-18T16:30:34.206+12:002012-07-18T16:30:34.206+12:00Evidence that to support the idea that eating chea...<i>Evidence that to support the idea that eating cheap, organic produce is slim on the ground. Nutritionally speaking, there's essentially no difference.</i><br /><br />Ben, your second link's abstract pretty much concludes the opposite to this, saying:<br /><br /><i>This trend was supported by a mean percent difference in micronutrient content favoring organic vegetables (+ 5.9%, P < Ben Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08015337296196701141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-42112666142092910182012-07-18T16:30:25.529+12:002012-07-18T16:30:25.529+12:00Interesting Ben about organic food, and certainly ...Interesting Ben about organic food, and certainly not the message I got when I was pregnant last year and felt like I was being bombarded with messages about how I should be eating organic food to give my foetus the best possible chance. I feel that the health angle is really pushed when I am being marketed at as a parent and I noticed that providing organic food is also a feature of some katyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15742280289613450293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-62860253786184163452012-07-18T15:27:04.232+12:002012-07-18T15:27:04.232+12:00Evidence that to support the idea that eating chea...Evidence that to support the idea that eating cheap, organic produce is slim on the ground. Nutritionally speaking, there's essentially no difference. <br /><br />http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2621.2010.02436.x/full#ss8<br /><br />http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10408391003721701<br /><br />Which leaves environmental benefits as the sole reason to be partaking (Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10683156111034643595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-403242832377382342012-07-18T14:39:14.681+12:002012-07-18T14:39:14.681+12:00Yeah -- I'm really just whinging that somehow ...Yeah -- I'm really just whinging that somehow a product that is simple and cheap to make (and I don't care whether it's organic or not) is outrageously expensive. It's not that I have to have it hand made. Frankly, I don't care as long as it tastes good -- and budget sliced sandwich bread definitely doesn't. Hence my complaint -- in Holland at least I could buy tasty breadAHDhttp://keaandcattle.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-65980273646681773562012-07-18T09:24:20.840+12:002012-07-18T09:24:20.840+12:00Thank you for this, Gio.
Tests have recently sug...Thank you for this, Gio. <br /><br />Tests have recently suggested that one of my young daughters (and, based on symptoms, probably the other one too) may have coeliac disease, and this is requiring a rapid refactoring of the family diet. This is humbling, since I have spent most of my adult life mocking the fad diets popularised by the sanctimonious likes of Gwyneth Paltrow, who would not doubt Lewhttp://www.kiwipolitico.com/index.php?author=27noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-51492587412732239812012-07-18T00:58:25.917+12:002012-07-18T00:58:25.917+12:00I have to say that I've found organic gardenin...I have to say that I've found organic gardening to be pretty easy. It's actually good for lazy gardeners. Got pests? Let it be...pretty soon you get beneficial predators and it balances out. Got weeds? Keeps the moisture in the soil, and the flowers bring beneficials...also hides the crops. Forgot to water? Helps you work out where the natural water flows are. Can't be arsed? It'sBen Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08015337296196701141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-70359756916252265192012-07-17T22:27:10.586+12:002012-07-17T22:27:10.586+12:00"AHD, if you want bread that fits those speci..."AHD, if you want bread that fits those specifications, you will have to make it with your own labour."<br /><br />Yes, I don't see how you get bread at that price without making it yourself. And even if you choose/are able to make it yourself, it would be a great deal more expensive if you opted for organic flour. <br /><br />There is a follow-up question for me in this regard: Giovanni Tisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10618534731338616708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-23631486938499367932012-07-17T21:04:45.292+12:002012-07-17T21:04:45.292+12:00The good thing about growing or making your own is...<i>The good thing about growing or making your own is that the water component is absolutely free!<br />Our esteemed leader said so, it must be true, and anyone who says otherwise is an opportunist.</i><br /><br />Heh, well it's pretty much true. Also, the sunlight is free. What's not free is the ground under it to catch those things, both of which have become so expensive in this countryBen Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08015337296196701141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-15858903143003650792012-07-17T14:50:05.448+12:002012-07-17T14:50:05.448+12:00I have eaten those "proper" chips (my mo...I have eaten those "proper" chips (my mother went through a phase of buying them) and they are no better than what you can buy at the supermarket for a third of the price.<br /><br />As a vegan who is vegan for environmental reasons I'm particularly worried about places like CO and Harvest, mostly because what they are selling isn't environmentally friendly foodstuffs but a Matthew Dentithhttp://www.episto.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-70949738099099461912012-07-17T14:23:11.953+12:002012-07-17T14:23:11.953+12:00The good thing about growing or making your own is...The good thing about growing or making your own is that the water component is absolutely free!<br />Our esteemed leader said so, it must be true, and anyone who says otherwise is an opportunist.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04424066726955708314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-59427400577117926962012-07-17T13:41:12.696+12:002012-07-17T13:41:12.696+12:00Reminds me of this illustrated talk by Zizek:
htt...Reminds me of this illustrated talk by Zizek:<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpAMbpQ8J7gAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-72643015961680553512012-07-17T13:27:14.898+12:002012-07-17T13:27:14.898+12:00Oh dear. Is all green-grocery inherently evil? I m...Oh dear. Is all green-grocery inherently evil? I mean, our supermarket 'fresh foods' are hardly bastions of sustainability (or health, for that matter). I suppose the cheapest way to grow good organic produce is in the garden, better still: with neighbours. This is a 'lost art' for many of us shopping-junkies and I salute all and any schools and parents teaching it in defiance of Clarehttp://9fragments.tumblr.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-46532014151044651602012-07-17T12:50:40.399+12:002012-07-17T12:50:40.399+12:00AHD, if you want bread that fits those specificati...AHD, if you want bread that fits those specifications, you will have to make it with your own labour. Anything else has labour, the cost of commercial property, and cultural 'value' added in. A place like Commonsense specialises in the latter, but also has to pay a premium to serve its gentrified location.<br /><br />Chinese and Vietnamese bakeries have the potential to do so, because George Dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-26794951020984492122012-07-17T10:06:33.047+12:002012-07-17T10:06:33.047+12:00Wow, that's bleak -- I wouldn't shop in an...Wow, that's bleak -- I wouldn't shop in any store that sells natural therapies and that kind of shit in the same space that it sells bread. They are a contradiction in terms.<br /><br />Now, as for bread. I want bread with water, (wholemeal) flour, salt and yeast, and I want it to have a hard crust -- and I want it to be unsliced. And I want to pay less than $4.50 for it. Is that so AHDhttp://keaandcattle.comnoreply@blogger.com