tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post6444282438527374326..comments2024-03-22T21:02:55.051+13:00Comments on Bat, Bean, Beam: Suffer the little childrenGiovanni Tisohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10618534731338616708noreply@blogger.comBlogger77125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-88025329296628135952015-04-13T19:20:45.278+12:002015-04-13T19:20:45.278+12:00If this book is filed under 284.845, it would seem...If this book is filed under 284.845, it would seem to have been miscatalogued. 284 covers Protestant denominations of Continental origin & related body. The authors of this book are from Tennessee. Surely it should fall under 285, Presbyterian churches, Reformed churches centered in America, & Congregational churches.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-84844819005977648332015-04-03T11:35:46.313+13:002015-04-03T11:35:46.313+13:00Coming to this discussion late (unfortunately, bec...Coming to this discussion late (unfortunately, because I think it is very interesting and important.) It seems to me that a large part of the disagreement arises from Giovanni’s statement that “we censor books.”<br />I disagree with this statement. It is not “we” who censors books, but “they.” In a class-divided society, it is the ruling class who censors books – through their control of the Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06380244733932491322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-16881088681754014252015-04-02T13:43:06.370+13:002015-04-02T13:43:06.370+13:00That's great!That's great!Giovanni Tisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10618534731338616708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-60281033732118072912015-04-02T13:17:23.630+13:002015-04-02T13:17:23.630+13:00Result!
http://www.elgar.govt.nz/record=b2999085~...Result!<br /><br />http://www.elgar.govt.nz/record=b2999085~S1Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-890896875846202582015-04-02T10:55:00.012+13:002015-04-02T10:55:00.012+13:00This is not directly relevant, but it's amusin...This is not directly relevant, but it's amusing: <br /><br />"On another note, Michael [Pearl] is an inductee into the International Knife Throwers Hall of Fame and holds several world titles, including Gold Cup winner of 2008-9, long distance thrower of the year with a record all time high of hitting a four inch target at 63 feet, and he is the undisputed best tomahawk thrower of 2009, Long time readernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-50200933532348897912015-04-02T10:11:37.521+13:002015-04-02T10:11:37.521+13:00It turns out there are a number of AL staff and ma...It turns out there are a number of AL staff and managers reading these comments - maybe some more would like to practice some of that open-access-to-information librarians are so proud of. There's been some good questions raised above; such as why did the press release talk about "offense caused"? Was it a pre-prepared release and had no-one actually read the petition? Since other Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-81347138239760014362015-04-01T22:22:53.989+13:002015-04-01T22:22:53.989+13:00"To Train Up A Child" is not the only ob..."To Train Up A Child" is not the only objectionable parenting guide held by Auckland Libraries. Search their catalogue for author "Ezzo" and you'll find a series of 10 books by Gary Ezzo, an American evangelical Christian whose controversial parenting methods have been condemned by pediatricians in the US.<br /><br />http://thestir.cafemom.com/baby/110170/Kaynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-18437681648643843362015-04-01T19:33:42.059+13:002015-04-01T19:33:42.059+13:00No, I believe Chris is quite serious. No, I believe Chris is quite serious. Giovanni Tisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10618534731338616708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-20153970602639081932015-04-01T19:32:09.389+13:002015-04-01T19:32:09.389+13:00>I think you are a much more dangerous person t...>I think you are a much more dangerous person than the authors of "To Train Up A Child". <br /><br />FFs, is that what passes for humour around here?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-12108197347592222022015-04-01T14:39:28.129+13:002015-04-01T14:39:28.129+13:00"I'm not entirely sure of my position on ..."I'm not entirely sure of my position on this – the banning of speech is undesirable per se. But it seems only honest to acknowledge exactly what this book is when we discuss it."<br /><br />I'm not entirely sure either, I took a position on the banning issue because I was pressed for one in the comments and it seemed honest to comply. To be told that this makes me worse than anGiovanni Tisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10618534731338616708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-68617436279537100702015-04-01T14:27:30.292+13:002015-04-01T14:27:30.292+13:00As far as I'm aware, Chris, no children have d...As far as I'm aware, Chris, no children have died as a result of Giovanni Tiso publishing a blog. The same, sadly, cannot be said of the author of this book.<br /><br />I don't think this is simply a matter of the book being offensive to some people, or somehow socially undesirable. In general, there is no right to not be offended.<br /><br />But it seems pertinent that this book is <i>Russell Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06272870489640380269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-61524658821196928672015-04-01T14:16:30.094+13:002015-04-01T14:16:30.094+13:00I know, Chris. You made those feelings quite clear...I know, Chris. You made those feelings quite clear when you compared me to the murderers of the Cathars for arguing that maybe rape apology should have less of a place on our airwaves. Giovanni Tisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10618534731338616708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-81886005372757928872015-04-01T14:13:01.037+13:002015-04-01T14:13:01.037+13:00A fascinating debate.
Congratulations to Dylan an...A fascinating debate.<br /><br />Congratulations to Dylan and Scott.<br /><br />Giovanni - I think you are a much more dangerous person than the authors of "To Train Up A Child".Chris Trotterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09081613281183460899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-28611502922710500232015-04-01T13:04:52.858+13:002015-04-01T13:04:52.858+13:00FYI, the OFLC just tweeted this: "The Chief C...FYI, the OFLC just tweeted this: "The Chief Censor has granted leave for controversial book #ToTrainUpAChild to be classified."<br /><br /><a href="https://twitter.com/NZOFLC/status/583055465715634176" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/NZOFLC/status/583055465715634176</a>Dylan Horrockshttp://hicksvillecomics.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-49146634407412916942015-04-01T12:28:00.488+13:002015-04-01T12:28:00.488+13:00Yeah, the "All publicity is good publicity&qu...Yeah, the "All publicity is good publicity" argument has never been true. Gordon Ramsay has publicity galore and yet his book sales are fairly abysmal compared to his peers.Matthew Dentithhttp://episto.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-86716649984090356652015-04-01T12:26:41.839+13:002015-04-01T12:26:41.839+13:00Re: Maria's comments on cataloging. This may s...Re: Maria's comments on cataloging. This may seem absurd but part of that catalog entry appears to be copied from another library, and the more detailed entry is provided by an external provider (who will soon be dumped). Adding “child abuse” as a subject heading is problematic, but AL could probably add a warning to the catalog entry, as could the external provider (@aquabrowser). No-one Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-31103467442433017822015-04-01T12:08:56.164+13:002015-04-01T12:08:56.164+13:00Oh, and I wouldn't submit it to the OFLC becau...Oh, and I wouldn't submit it to the OFLC because I don't want it banned. Or removed from the library. I'd be delighted to have it ignored, mind you.<br /><br />But I'll bow out now. Have the conversation you intended to have, and I'll go do other things. Next time we see each other, we can hash it out over a beer (or not).Dylan Horrockshttp://hicksvillecomics.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-91191631492759917452015-04-01T12:07:00.838+13:002015-04-01T12:07:00.838+13:00"I can guarantee the publicity surrounding th..."I can guarantee the publicity surrounding the petition and endless blog and social media posts will have sold a heap of copies and earned its authors a few royalties"<br /><br />I wouldn't be so sure. In fact according to data the book has sold a mere five thousand copies in the last several years, rather belying the claim on the cover. Giovanni Tisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10618534731338616708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-11058863152602560972015-04-01T12:03:08.420+13:002015-04-01T12:03:08.420+13:00Hmm. I just saw your comment Giovanni, that posted...Hmm. I just saw your comment Giovanni, that posted while I was typing.<br /><br />So, one last thing: as I understand it (from chatting with librarians), the library's policy has been to purchase all requested books, unless the price is too high, or their budget has run out. I assume there are other considerations that come into it, and maybe our anonymous librarian can clarify. <br /><br />Dylan Horrockshttp://hicksvillecomics.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-18073652389826033122015-04-01T11:56:06.514+13:002015-04-01T11:56:06.514+13:00We have shifted the debate to the one you wanted t...We have shifted the debate to the one you wanted to have, instead of the argument I made in the post. Sorry if it wasn't done to your satisfaction. <br /><br />But I'm still mildly interested why you would not report the book to the censor yourself (assuming you don't want to).Giovanni Tisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10618534731338616708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-70652146381125324182015-04-01T11:52:43.288+13:002015-04-01T11:52:43.288+13:00Well, Giovanni, if you think the OFLC is a waste o...Well, Giovanni, if you think the OFLC is a waste of time, and would prefer to lobby the public library, then I don't know that there's much point in continuing to argue with you. <br /><br />The OFLC could actually restrict access to this book in NZ. If you genuinely believe it's dangerous, that would make sense. <br /><br />Lobbying the library, on the other hand, can achieve little Dylan Horrockshttp://hicksvillecomics.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-77202296990827758122015-04-01T11:49:45.640+13:002015-04-01T11:49:45.640+13:00Librarians can scream “we’re against censorship” t...Librarians can scream “we’re against censorship” til we’re blue in the face, but there is a selection and deselection process. Scott brings up a good example with “Uncensored” magazine which his blog posts have helped keep off library shelves. There is a lot more scrutiny over magazine purchases than books as they are an ongoing expense.<br /><br />> So yes, if pressed I would say Auckland Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-82697236736198756862015-04-01T11:45:32.545+13:002015-04-01T11:45:32.545+13:00Dylan
"I'm not sure what your point is, ...<b>Dylan</b><br /><br />"I'm not sure what your point is, Giovanni. You seem to be saying "sure there's a policy - so what? In the real world, we just fight it out case by case." I'm trying to tell you that the fight only happened in the case of Lost Girls because the policy is there, and when we argued that it had been breached, the library sought to find a resolution.Giovanni Tisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10618534731338616708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-71146268672365614162015-04-01T11:38:36.121+13:002015-04-01T11:38:36.121+13:00Well, it hasn't happened at all, successfully ...Well, it hasn't happened at all, successfully or otherwise. But let's keep waiting for the slope to start slipping by all means.Giovanni Tisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10618534731338616708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-13859005319260645782015-04-01T11:35:35.397+13:002015-04-01T11:35:35.397+13:00A number of people warned that if my campaign to g...<i>A number of people warned that if my campaign to get sponsors to withdraw from the Willie and JT radio show were successful and as a result Radio Live pulled the show, conservatives would most assuredly start similar campaigns against progressive broadcasters or writers.</i><br /><br />I suspect I was one of them. I certainly didn't think it would happen any time soon, at least Graeme Edgelerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03928755583921638414noreply@blogger.com