tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post3868648308193765867..comments2024-03-16T21:03:05.280+13:00Comments on Bat, Bean, Beam: The ShallowGiovanni Tisohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10618534731338616708noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-62785169931056395512011-05-26T21:04:03.082+12:002011-05-26T21:04:03.082+12:00Hi,
Check out! Nicholas Carr talks about Cloud co...Hi,<br /><br />Check out! Nicholas Carr talks about Cloud consumerism, enterprises' growing interest in Cloud, and Nick's upcoming projects http://bit.ly/ixv4OVgloriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16356837925419236732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-82271883464821842252011-05-26T18:45:42.271+12:002011-05-26T18:45:42.271+12:00human memory is clearly very different to digital ...<i>human memory is clearly very different to digital storage</i><br /><br />And yet it’s amazing how many people who should know better (I’ve talked about <a href="http://bat-bean-beam.blogspot.com/2009/02/dullest-person-ive-ever-come-across.html" rel="nofollow">one of them</a> here, but there are many others) don’t seem to be able to grasp that difference. Carr does, to his credit, and Giovanni Tisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10618534731338616708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-69363403715115947722011-05-26T12:59:49.506+12:002011-05-26T12:59:49.506+12:00>that when we say that we externalise these men...>that when we say that we externalise these mental faculties we're seldom very clear on whether we mean intelligence or memory, and if we say memory whether we actually mean identity. Carr is no exception. <br /><br />I think we're seldom clear because the differences actually aren't that clear. Intelligence is a particularly poorly defined word, and human memory is clearly very Ben Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08015337296196701141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-32282974318681898572011-05-25T20:51:49.484+12:002011-05-25T20:51:49.484+12:00Extelligence is a philosophical and scientific ter...Extelligence is a philosophical and scientific term, produced in a different discipline but a similar milieu as external phenotype. I'm not sure how Pratchett used it, but for its originators it was essentially synonimous with what Carr calls externalised memory. And that's a problem in this area of speculation in and of itself: that when we say that we externalise these mental faculties Giovanni Tisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10618534731338616708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-3543627516578356502011-05-25T17:17:32.924+12:002011-05-25T17:17:32.924+12:00The Extended Phenotype
As far as knowledge goes,...<i>The Extended Phenotype </i><br /><br />As far as knowledge goes, in <i>The Science of the Discworld</i> I think they call it 'extelligence'. For added relevence, I might add that this factoid to quite some remembering for me.Lyndonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05622953598107216261noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-19499431735533229652011-05-25T07:46:07.061+12:002011-05-25T07:46:07.061+12:00I noticed that I wasn't reading fiction in the...I noticed that I wasn't reading fiction in the mid-90s. For me, reading had lost quite a lot of its pleasure at University. Also, I simply came to like non-fiction a lot more than previously, and would read it purely for pleasure. This was well before I was reading a lot on the internet.Ben Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08015337296196701141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-82194239335258156042011-05-24T20:27:27.893+12:002011-05-24T20:27:27.893+12:00@kylejits
"Is spending time on the internet...<b>@kylejits</b> <br /><br />"Is spending time on the internet mean we're reading the same/more amount of non-fiction, but less non-fiction? And if so, what does that mean?"<br /><br />Is it me, or adults have complained that they no longer read fiction since before the days of internet? I suspect that the supposed inability to read long books may be something that comes with a Giovanni Tisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10618534731338616708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-79243309798841132152011-05-24T20:19:38.453+12:002011-05-24T20:19:38.453+12:00Agreed. I think the world of internet critics is c...Agreed. I think the world of internet critics is crying out for a Neil Postman (indeed some aspects of Postman's critique of television, such as the "Now... <i>THIS</i>" model for organising the delivery of news, can be recycled more or less wholesale, <a href="http://www.spleen.vital.org.nz/entry/tag/neil+postman" rel="nofollow">as Stephen has argued</a>). <br /><br />(You're Giovanni Tisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10618534731338616708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-45484415062622403952011-05-24T17:19:12.639+12:002011-05-24T17:19:12.639+12:00I'd dispute that the ancient art of memory has...I'd dispute that the ancient art of memory has disappeared. There are still mnemonists, and the odd prodigy. But the requirement for all educated people to also be mnemonists is lessened. People still seem to remember most of what they need to remember, though. Also, there is a big overlap period, in case there really is something disastrous about the technology. Oral history was still huge Ben Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08015337296196701141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-20796216265128499492011-05-24T15:50:07.605+12:002011-05-24T15:50:07.605+12:00We've been doing most of these things for thou...<i>We've been doing most of these things for thousands of years, and in the case of cooking and clothing/shelter, they have demonstrably affected our evolution - so at what point do I draw the line and say "this is part of me; this is not"?</i><br /><br />I think if asked we’d all come up with slightly different lines of demarcation, but one thing I found in my research is that the Giovanni Tisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10618534731338616708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-56383581728961221592011-05-24T15:24:04.256+12:002011-05-24T15:24:04.256+12:00I think our brains have (and will continue to) ada...<i>I think our brains have (and will continue to) adapt to the world they find themselves in. We're living in a time saturated in information, and I think that what's going on in our brains reflects that. We aren't required to tax our memories in the same way, but who is to say that doesn't actually free up capacity for alternate processing?</i><br /><br />Nicholas Carr, Giovanni Tisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10618534731338616708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-41912468078080132262011-05-24T14:53:45.757+12:002011-05-24T14:53:45.757+12:00"Furthermore, at a functional level, aren'..."Furthermore, at a functional level, aren't books and the internet extensions of our memory? In fact, it goes much deeper, at least for me, my entire office is an extension of my memory"<br /><br />I always think of this as an example of Dawkins' <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_extended_phenotype" rel="nofollow">Extended Phenotype</a>* - we outsource some of the James Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11459885200603545823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-14748797369368358582011-05-24T14:44:06.909+12:002011-05-24T14:44:06.909+12:00Indeed. Mere changes in brain usage are interestin...Indeed. Mere changes in brain usage are interesting but not in themselves bad. Education changes the way brains work too. And there's a huge range, both in people who simply use their brains differently (like our particular children - I can hardly expect Marcus to be using the part of his brain that was damaged by his stroke), and in people who are famous geniuses.<br /><br />I think our Ben Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08015337296196701141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-49384159987194147242011-05-24T13:53:42.740+12:002011-05-24T13:53:42.740+12:00"I don't know if that means I'm not n..."I don't know if that means I'm not neurotypical or something."<br /><br />I was meaning to get into this: one of the most disappointing aspects of Carr's critique - although he shares it with so many commentators and researchers it almost seems unfair to single him out - it's the extent in which it assumes that neurotypical reading and comprehension (let alone Giovanni Tisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10618534731338616708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-23737043264423601672011-05-24T12:43:16.853+12:002011-05-24T12:43:16.853+12:00Huge question, and hardly one to leave the interne...Huge question, and hardly one to leave the internet out of by discussing it in print. Thank you for bringing it to us, Gio. <br /><br />I found it quite easy to resist Twitter, strangely. I don't need to impose any discipline at all, I simply don't feel any desire to use it unless there's some urgent bit of news I want to keep up with.<br /><br />Similarly with Facebook, it's justBen Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08015337296196701141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-86100992804079075642011-05-24T09:43:09.595+12:002011-05-24T09:43:09.595+12:00I'm not unsympathetic to the arguments of this...I'm not unsympathetic to the arguments of this book. I feel a pronounced restriction of thought to 140 character bursts.George Dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-15895986437762668252011-05-24T09:05:15.178+12:002011-05-24T09:05:15.178+12:00"‘[o]ur indulgence in the pleasures of inform..."‘[o]ur indulgence in the pleasures of informality and immediacy has led to a narrowing of expressiveness and a loss of eloquence’ (108), something that no doubt will come to a surprise to your friends who are honing their aphoristic skills on Twitter, or their broader array of rhetorical skills on blogs and discussion forums."<br /><br />+1James Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11459885200603545823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-21413049636214310682011-05-24T07:59:33.708+12:002011-05-24T07:59:33.708+12:00By conincidence, I was listening a blog which touc...By conincidence, I was listening a blog which touched on the Atlantic Article and the book (A podcast to remember, Stuff you should know), but with less of a critical eye than your blog.<br /><br />They did make the interesting point that the internet was largely non-fiction writing and reading, whereas when we pick up books we're much more likely to pick up fiction writing.<br /><br />Their kylejitshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10077867019944337673noreply@blogger.com