tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post333446038478017838..comments2024-03-22T21:02:55.051+13:00Comments on Bat, Bean, Beam: In the Shadow of No TowersGiovanni Tisohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10618534731338616708noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-87749372264885802092009-12-19T19:08:14.478+13:002009-12-19T19:08:14.478+13:00You did not die at Brighton,
nor your young son a...You did not die at Brighton, <br />nor your young son at Picton,<br />nor your husband at Sydenham,<br />nor his children, in time.<br /><br />The trace of you's not seen on me<br />so we might say, you never lived<br />by definition: here we are,<br />another place where you are not.<br /><br />I could take my lies to Linwood<br />where monumental masonry<br />for now, at least, says Megan Claytonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03584562106579704547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-68889051609588141922009-12-16T00:06:19.590+13:002009-12-16T00:06:19.590+13:00Rather he approaches 911 as a disturbance of langu...Rather he approaches 911 as a disturbance of language;it was as he writes," ultimately a semiotic event, involving the total breakdown of all meaning making systems"<br />Great Quote!!<br />As for repudiation of pleasure..No thank you!<br />Maybe you could try some non fiction like Kristen Breitweiser "Wake up call"<br />or "911 and the American Empire: Intellectuals Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11603078579873452257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-65557086625801756492009-12-15T09:52:19.839+13:002009-12-15T09:52:19.839+13:00Thank you Carl, very interesting. I have to agree ...Thank you Carl, very interesting. I have to agree with the reviewer that including In the Shadow stretches the definition of "novel" somewhat!Giovanni Tisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10618534731338616708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-39761547696241179452009-12-15T09:24:48.011+13:002009-12-15T09:24:48.011+13:00@Rachel yeah, one guy's therapy is another guy...@Rachel yeah, one guy's therapy is another guy's erasure. I wasn't meaning to come to a clean conclusion, just to point at some difficulties.<br /><br />Giovanni, I might have missed a prior link but I'm wondering if you came across Laura Frost's review of 9/11 fiction in the current bookforum. Here's the first paragraph:<br /><br />"I didn't see the bodies CarlDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10912167329931540545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-72835328407250943222009-12-13T21:00:15.877+13:002009-12-13T21:00:15.877+13:00I must say I am a little confused by the 'know...I must say I am a little confused by the 'knowledege pills and therapeutic history'. <br />"Good history is history that helps people feel better in the present" (Carl). Would this be the 911 Commission Report that makes people feel better about the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq? <br />"Holocaust denial is an obvious instance of therapeutic history"(Carl). This would Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11603078579873452257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-81282336495616624982009-12-06T10:27:06.307+13:002009-12-06T10:27:06.307+13:00Hah! This makes two weeks in a row where you pre-e...Hah! This makes two weeks in a row where you pre-empt what I'm going to talk about in the following post. Very nice.<br /><br />I made a case for the imperative to remember in the last four-five posts based on the intersection between personal memory and history in an admittedly limit set of cases, and I think it would be a bold man who would question it if the choice is between Giovanni Tisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10618534731338616708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-50427768545153886232009-12-05T21:37:27.253+13:002009-12-05T21:37:27.253+13:00Thanks for the link, Giova'! Your blog is a fe...Thanks for the link, Giova'! Your blog is a feast, I look forward to more.<br /><br />"You must be true to memory." Really? Why? I'm sure you've addressed this but I'm new here. In my classes I assign a journal for which I ask the students to imagine that they're writing for a historian of the distant future whose experience of education was taking knowledge pills. CarlDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10912167329931540545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-90543734060004391012009-12-01T15:36:35.692+13:002009-12-01T15:36:35.692+13:00@Ben
It seems easier to pin down actual truths and...<b>@Ben</b><br /><i>It seems easier to pin down actual truths and history than the methodology by which we could come to know them.</i><br /><br />I think if you read Spiegelman and Levi you cannot but be struck by the depth and the extent of not only their involvement but also their commitment to be true to their experience. But of course while it is easy to establish that people like Gage or Giovanni Tisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10618534731338616708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-13713205747779024882009-12-01T12:38:05.539+13:002009-12-01T12:38:05.539+13:00Nice thoughts Gio. I'd like to flatter myself ...Nice thoughts Gio. I'd like to flatter myself and say I've been having a lot of similar thoughts myself recently.<br /><br />Bob Roberts seems to think it can be put more simply, and perhaps it can. But perhaps some people can't hear it that way. Words like Truth and History seem to become harder and harder to pin down, the more you try. It seems easier to pin down actual truths and Ben Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08015337296196701141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-22137938626606867802009-12-01T12:28:03.884+13:002009-12-01T12:28:03.884+13:00Giovanni, you give me even more to respond to. I f...Giovanni, you give me even more to respond to. I finish this thesis in a few days, I'll give it a go then. PS, I cite your comments on the iconicity of the visual image. <br /><br />I don't know if you've read History and memory after Auschwitz by Dominick LaCapra, but he discusses Maus and traumatic representation at length. His Writing History, Writing Trauma is a very good GZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07756723544792981390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-37687255843632299262009-12-01T09:46:33.252+13:002009-12-01T09:46:33.252+13:00By the way, Matthew has been to the Auckland talk ...By the way, Matthew has been to the Auckland talk as well and has <a href="http://all-embracing.episto.org/2009/11/30/richard-gage-ii-gouge-harder/" rel="nofollow">offered his thoughts</a> on both events. Good stuff.Giovanni Tisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10618534731338616708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-41125590437375683602009-12-01T09:39:22.182+13:002009-12-01T09:39:22.182+13:00I don't know whether I failed to notice it las...<i>I don't know whether I failed to notice it last time or whether Gage only brought it up at the Auckland event, but there was a lot of "You have to be brave to come to these events" and "It takes courage to stand up and tell others what you believe about 9/11." </i><br /><br />I don't know that there was a lot of it, but he did make that point. Bursill in his Giovanni Tisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10618534731338616708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-80434086958642915782009-12-01T09:34:05.147+13:002009-12-01T09:34:05.147+13:00There seems to be a lot of over-writing in this po...There seems to be a lot of over-writing in this post to reach a fairly banal conclusion: you must tell the truth; you must not not tell the truth. <br /><br />As far as hate mail goes, while I wouldn't wish it on anybody, is it possible that describing Gage's movement as motivated by "a logic of hatred", and comparing them to Holocaust deniers, might have had something to do bob robertsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9057225441101183394.post-19036074151486710722009-12-01T09:20:35.793+13:002009-12-01T09:20:35.793+13:00"To testify - the religious overtones are not..."To testify - the religious overtones are not casual - signals that you possess the truth within yourself and your desire to convince others of it. "<br /><br />I don't know whether I failed to notice it last time or whether Gage only brought it up at the Auckland event, but there was a lot of "You have to be brave to come to these events" and "It takes courage to Matthew R. X. Dentithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12499867223966169985noreply@blogger.com